I have had the most interesting experience at All Saints Episcopal Church. My visits have changed the way that I understand tradition and worship. Sensual is probably the best word to describe the service built and designed from centuries of carefully crafted symbolic worship. As you know I have grown up in the Pentecostal Church, a young denomination not yet one hundred years old. Unlike the Episcopal Church, the Pentecostal church chose to throw off years of learning and church tradition and start anew. Some of the buildings are built well and glorify God with their beauty, but most are built plain and simple as is the church service and worship.
As I walked into the historic Episcopal Church building, which was built in the late eighteen hundreds, and looked around, I noticed high arching ceilings, intricately carved beams and beautifully stained glass, each colorfully arranged window a story in itself. At exactly nine o’clock the bell rang, the organ filled each space in the church and the ceremonial processional began. First came a young white robbed child holding a seven foot staff with a cross on top, walking slowly up the isle from the back of the church. Following her were two more robbed children each holding lit candles. Behind them were others, singers, more cross holders, one taller individual holding a golden plated Bible with reverence high above his head and last came the priest, step by step, patiently walking toward the front of the church and then seating himself inauspiciously next to the organ. The service had begun and an atmosphere of high worship and mystery had overtaken us all.
I say sensual because each of my senses were involved in the worship. I was reminded of God’s majesty as I looked around and took in the beauty of the sanctuary and the symbolic architecture. A throng of voices simultaneously read prayers of confession and attrition from the Book of Common Prayer. Everyone was now exiting the pews, bowing and then walking toward the front of the church. I awkwardly stepped out, bowed and followed. At the front of the church I knelt and held out my hands to receive the communion bread. “The body and blood of Christ” said the priest as I took the bread and tasted the wine, which left a slight burning feeling in my stomach. I stood up and walked through the prayer chapel filled with the air of fragrant incense and sat down back at my seat. Such depth of worship! Each movement, each symbol, each sound, touch, taste and prayer purposefully designed to glorify God. The experience reminded me of his greatness, his beauty, his mystery.
How can there be an advance in worship without tradition and Christian heritage? Technology is advanced because it is built upon the work of past generations, yet we have thrown aside the traditions of the church saying that they are old, stale and no longer of value, yet by tossing aside our heritage we are tossing aside a worship life of profound, tested spiritual substance. Tradition has become old and stale because we have failed to educate worshipers of the vibrancy of renewed worship rooted in the heritage of faith. We have forgotten to teach people what is happening and why. There is nothing wrong with new styles and means of worship, but they should be built and tempered upon a foundation of hundreds of years of worship practice. I highly encourage you to experience other forms of worship. Being raised as a good Pentecostal kid, I never would have thought of entering into the high church worship style of the Church of England or of a catholic church. I looked down on other denominations. Visiting these other brothers and sisters has expanded my vision and helped me to understand the traditions that have been refined with each service, each year, each century and passed down from generation to generation that we might be reminded of the greatness and mystery of God.
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Col 2:20-23
If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
"Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch !"
(which all refer to things destined to perish with use )--in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men ?
These are matters which have, to be sure , the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.
2 Co 4:7
But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, so that the surpassing greatness of the power will be of God and not from ourselves;
2 Timothy 3:1-5
But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant , revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these.
Matt 7:19-20
"Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. "So then, you will know them by their fruits.
Matt 7:21-23
"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles ?'
"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'
Eph 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
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Is it about form or is it about godliness and power? Is it about tradition or is it about truth? Is it what you (works) do or is it who you know? Is it "how it looks" or is it "the fruit"? Is it about sin or is it or is it about who is God? Is it about religion or about relationship? And is this tradition the will of God? If so the Bible should say, "hold this book above your head in your services ..." or should it not?
Blessings!
Stephen
Forgot to mention that I do agree that the Church needs to be very expressive in worship (while I don't really believe in religion or tradition). In being reasonable we should build on the foundations that saints in the past established ... in that we learn from them the truths they discovered about God. Good article, interesting thoughts on the matter. Blessings!
Col 2:20-23 – refers to legalism, not tradition.
2 Co 4:7- What does this verse have to do with anything??
2 Timothy 3:1-5 In the last days men will be lovers of self and hold only a form of godliness – Yes I agree with this, however I see it more in the protestant church then the Episcopal church, especially in Pentecostal denominations. There is a lot of performance going in many of these churches. The Episcopal Church that I attended is probably one of the most God glorifying and God centered church that I have attended.
Matt 7:19-20 – Yes good fruit is important. We should be getting rid of the practices that don’t work. That is why tradition has been refined over centuries and centuries.
Matt 7:21-23 – Ok? What does this verse have to do with anything?
Eph 2:8-9 – I agree. I don’t understand why you’ve cited this verse.
You have asked some great questions Stephen, but I think that you may be passing judgments on something of which you have no knowledge (you’ve never been to the Episcopal Church, have you?). I don’t have any problem with judgments, just make sure that you do as Jesus said and make right judgments.
I agree with you Stephen. Truth is more important than tradition. However there is much truth in tradition. There is much truth outside of the Bible. All truth is God’s truth. “Two plus two equals four” is truth, although math is not specifically taught within the scriptures. All churches have tradition. Your church has tradition. The difference between the tradition of the Episcopal Church and the traditions of Saginaw Valley Community Church is that is that the Episcopal Church has been refining its tradition for centuries, but SVCC as well as most modern Pentecostal churches’ traditions cannot be traced very far back. They are new and adolescent.
Why is your church service structured as it is (singing, offering collection, announcements, sermon, fellowship, go home; singing, offering collection, announcements, sermon, fellowship, go home etc)? Is that format biblical? Is it scriptural to perform a worship service in that particular order? Why does the pastor wear a suit instead of a robe or instead of jeans and a t-shirt? Why do some of your dancers use costumes and others not? Why do you use certain kinds of flags and not others? Why is your church building designed like it is instead of in another way? Why has your church leadership decided to decorate the sanctuary in the way that it has (the painting, molding, shape, style, aesthetics, etc)?
Were these things done according to scripture? I highly doubt it. All of those things are based on tradition. Your church leaders watched other church services or studied culture or read books or received training and are now performing church according to the traditions (whether secular or religious), that have been handed down from others. You have refined some of your traditions and changed them and stopped practicing others. The modern Pentecostal church which dates back to the Azusa Street revival in 1901 chose to start anew and throw away all past traditions and began their own – which is fine. Every church has traditions. That doesn’t mean that every church should perform their services in the same way that the Episcopal Church does or the Catholic Church or the Vineyard Church or whatever.
Although I do not regularly attend the Episcopal Church, I did enjoy my experiences there and I plan on using what I have learned when I am pastoring. Previously I have very much looked down on “traditional” churches, as a young person looks down on the elderly, but I have begun to realize that maybe, just maybe these ancient churches have learned something over the years, and just maybe, having influenced millions around the world, there just might be something that we can learn from them. Just a thought.
This is something I should study in more depth ... and I can see where you are coming from -- definitely. But at the same time I don't think that the focus should be on the traditions. It is true that almost every church I can think of has traditions (systems, etc) ... and that's fine ... unless we begin to worship the tradition for the sake of the tradition instead of worshiping God (I'd assume that's what the teachers of the law were doing in Jesus' time).
And I also agree that I havn't been to the church in question and wouldn't dare make a judgement against them without knowing more about them ... and I don't think that anything that I've said could be construed as making any such judgement. I used these verses to demonstrate that the Bible is almost anti-tradition wherever/whenever tradition and rules seperate us from the most important thing: a personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ. The Bible talks about one thing as being the focus: our relationship with God.
Its clear to me that tradition and rules have often come between us and God, but that can be said about just about anything. I think many churches put much energy into tradition and lack a real focus on what matters most.
It boils down to one thing: you can't judge a church by how it feels (or looks) ... ultimately what is their fruit? Are people coming to a relationship with Christ through their traditions? If so ... I'm all for it. But if they worship their traditions, my question would be whether or not they even follow Christ at all.
I agree with you Stephen. The focus should not be on traditions. Well designed traditions that have been refined and changed over centuries of time will effectively put the focus on God. I also agree that traditions should not cause legalism outside of the commands of scripture. As you mentioned, Jesus brutally latched into the Pharisees when they tried to create more commands which were based on Moses law. Surely we don’t want to fall into that. We are no longer under Moses law. We are now under the law of Christ, which is the law of love.
I agree with you that tradition is wrong when it separates us from God, though I strongly disagree with your statement that my relationship with God is the MOST important thing. “My” anything will never be the most important thing. God is the most important thing. He’s more important than me. He’s more important than you and he’s more important than any relationship. Even my relationship with him is secondary to himself. He is the most important thing, which is why he commands that we love him first, before we love anyone or anything else. Should we refuse to do this we will suffer eternal punishment.
Yes, too many churches put the focus (rules, traditions) in the wrong place when it should be placed on glorifying and loving God.
It is true that you cannot judge a church by its traditions or methods, but only by its fruits. I enjoyed learning about the methods used at the Episcopal Church because of the fruit that I see it producing and I had never before seen or experienced anything like it. This semester I have had a chance to visit a variety of different churches and I’m having a wonderful time gathering ideas to implement in the church that Melissa and I will be pastoring.
Interesting way of looking at the importance of having a relationship with Christ. I'd have to agree. But put a postscript to my own statement above: I would define having a personal relationship with God as first and foremost putting God first in our lives (He is definitely more important than am I or anyone else), and secondly enabling communication or communion and relationship with Him. It is difficult to have a relationship with someone if you don't first acknowledge who they really are. I doubt you can have one without the other ...
Per your request I'll post here what I wrote you in an email (didn't want to spam your blog too much without your permission ... hehe) And of course it will give you the opportunity to post your thoughtful reply as well. And perhaps others will find it helpful ...
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Looks like you've put a lot of thought into this idea. Its interesting to watch how open you have become to many unusual ideas. I do like thinking about stuff like this as it keeps me on my toes. I replied to your position on your blog ... but wanted to send a short
note here as well.
I'm confused as to what you feel might be gained in the traditions of the church over time. For instance, you say that, "I have begun to realize that maybe, just maybe these ancient churches have learned something over the years." Perhaps you can summerize the type of
things that you believe they may have learned. I remember someone else telling about visiting a mainline church such as the one you visited and how much more revered God is among them (as compared to a pentecostal church). They told about how God seems so much more
respected through their services.
My disillusionment with tradition is that often people will latch onto a tradition rather than obedience to Christ in their daily lives. The catholics have taken that to an extreme with their worship of false gods such as mary or the saints. (Some catholics aren't like that, yes i know, this is a generalization). I know this isn't how God meant it to be. Other churches may have an excellent tradition and yet obtain a rightiousness and connection with God through it.
I guess its hard for me to understand how your tradition truely matters. For instance, the tradition where I go to church at SVCC ... am I entirely in support of it? No ... I'm not. In fact I'm in dialog with the pastor to see if it can be changed to allow more of God's glory and more respect for God in the place.
I guess to me, tradition is like the structure of a building. While that's important, its not everything. Many traditions severely limit the people of God in what they can experience. Others are too open to the things of God and give in to deception in their search for anything that God might say to them. I've often said that the Church that allows God's spirit to move freely and also has excellent structure ... a structure that enables rather than gets in the way ... this Church would be close to what God would want. Ultimately its not about structures or traditions though ... its about being the people of God and worshipping God not necessarily in the Church or in any particular place ... but worshiping Him all the time and whenever or wherever without neglecting the meeting of each other. We need unity not denominations ... and often traditions simply seperate us.
You’re right Stephen,
The more that I travel, read, experience and learn, the closer to the truth that I have become. I never realized how blind I was until I transversed outside of my normal reading (leadership, self improvement etc) and outside of Saginaw into other countries, cultures, centuries and ways of thinking.
There is much to be gained from the most influential churches in the world (catholic, Episcopal, Eastern Orthodox). Technology would not have progressed if we had not learned from our fathers. Neither would science have progressed or theology or philosophy or anything. Great leaders, as I’m sure that you would agree, stand on the shoulders of giants. We also need to stand on the shoulders of hundreds of years of church learning.
I know that you have trouble understanding how I would consider the Episcopal Church to be a giant of whose shoulders we need to stand upon, but until you experience it for yourself, you probably will not understand. In fact, if and when you do experience it you may not even like it because it is very different from the churches in which you and I have been raised or attended. Had I experienced the Episcopal Church five years ago, I probably would have hated it because I would have been comparing it to the Pentecostal church.
The reason why tradition becomes old and stale is because it no longer has meaning. You and I enjoy watching the fireworks every year even though we could watch a much more entertaining film on TV because to us fireworks have so much meaning behind them. They are symbolic to us of our independence. Fireworks are available all year round, yet the fourth of July continues to be the most popular day for their use because the fireworks are used to symbolize something greater than the fireworks themselves. If the fourth of July were to disappear, fireworks would stop having much meaning for us. Fireworks would not really be that special anymore. Fireworks are special to us when they are used to symbolize something great, such as a new year or a birthday, etc. In the same way, the Episcopal Church, over the centuries has discovered how to use symbols, symbolic action, symbolic art, etc to remind us of the greatness of God and to put us into an attitude of worship.
New Age, Wicca, Buddhism, law enforcement, government offices, (presidential swearing in etc) and many other organizations and people groups use symbols and ceremony to communicate attitudes and feelings. As you know symbols are very, very powerful. Over the centuries the Episcopal Church has refined and used symbols very effectively (or less effectively at times and at certain churches). They have gone wrong at times, when they have forgotten to teach the biblical truths behind the symbols. This is unfortunate because it has caused tradition to become meaningless, stale and dead. Soon, people are only going “through the motions.”
Now that I have begun to study theology, I’m beginning to see and understand what is behind all of the symbolism and tradition and why the church has done what it has. I’m sure that you have seen priests and such reach their hand up, then down, then left and right at certain times, like the end of a prayer or while blessing someone. That action was designed to remind people of a tremendous theological truth concerning the Trinity, but unfortunately for most it has lost its meaning and is no longer fulfilling its original purpose in most churches.
I have to agree with you about the catholic faith. Theological problems within the Catholic Church (bad handling of scripture) have given tradition higher authority than the Bible (though I have difficulty commenting on the catholic faith because I don’t know much about it).
I stand by your decision to talk to the pastor about rectifying some of the “traditions” at your church. Traditions should be built and taught so that all is done to remind people of God’s greatness so that they can glorify him.
The Israelites built temples and tabernacles in such a way as to remind the people of God’s glory and point people to him. Jesus became angry with the Pharisees because to them the temple and tradition had become more important then what it was meant to represent. It is not tradition that is bad. It is what people do with tradition or don’t do that is bad. A gun in itself is not bad. A gun can be used for great good. It is what is done with the gun that is good or bad. It is too bad that I have allowed tradition to separate me from so many churches. I’m grateful that I visited the Episcopal Church and rid myself of those stereotypical and separatist thoughts.
Thank you for taking so much time to post to my site Stephen. I've enjoyed dialoguing with you about this subject. I believe that each of us has brought up views that the other may not have previously considered. Good conversation is great for clarifying thoughts and realizations. I appreciate your investment. Your thoughts are always enlightening.
Hey, interesting experience, maybe I'll someday go just for the experience. It seems the old churches are so much more majestic and well, big heh, is the only thing I can think of (Notre Dame??) For me personally though I do not think it would be free enough of an atmosphere in which I can worship God, although worshipping him does encompass many different things, I would probably just feel really awkward, at first at least. But I won't say anything for sure until I've gone myself. Love yah bro, keep on passionately pursuing God, peace.
Jarrod.
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Phil,
What's the value of sacraments? Is it because you are body and soul, and need signs to understand the mysteries of God?
I find it hard to think that Jesus left nothing, and that a book spontaneously leapt ex nihilo around 400 AD only to be embraced around 1500 AD.
Is what you experienced at an Anglican Church the trappings surrounding something sacred that was handed down by Jesus 2000 years ago?
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